The History of the Case of the Mysterious
Disappearance of Catherine Winters
Including the reading of famed Hollywood
Psychic Patti Negri
by Mark Sean Orr
October 31, 2015
                 The History of the Case of the Mysterious Disappearance of Catherine Winters

THE DISAPPEARANCE
On March 20, 1913 young Catherine Winters disappeared from the streets of downtown New Castle, Indiana. Catherine
was 9 years old and the daughter of Dentist William 'Asa' Winters, a local dentist and Etta Whistler Winters who was said to
be a relative of James McNeil Whistler, the famous artist most notable for his 1871 portrait "Whistler's Mother".
Catherine was born to the Winters on February 10, 1904. In 1904 they resided at 1124 Broad Street. A brother Frankie
was born a few years later on June 22, 1906. In 1908 Etta, suffering with what was said to have been tuberculosis, went to
Colorado Springs as it was proposed to be a beneficial place for those with her condition.  Etta died of pneumonia just 5
months later on April 17, 1909.
Asa Winters (William) then married Byrd Ritter (in 1910) who became the step-mother of Catherine and Frankie.
In the 1910 Federal Census (before Asa's marriage to Byrd) the following people were shown as living in the Winters home
which was at that time  listed as the 900 block of Broad Street:
William A. Winters 33
Catherine D. Winters 6
Frank C Winters 3
Eliza Whisler 68 mother in law
Ida Chalfant 47 sister in law
*Etta Whisler had died the previous year and her mother and a step-sister had moved in to help take care of Catherine
and Frankie. They were kicked out and sued for back rent by Byrd Winters after her marriage to Asa (William).
The family moved to 311 N. 16th Street sometime after this census.
On March 20, 1913 Catherine Winters was out selling sewing needles. Holland School where Catherine attended had been
closed on that Thursday because of a measles outbreak. According to step-mother Byrd Winters, Catherine didn't come
home for lunch which caused some concern.  Investigator on the Winters case Robert Abel stated he was told by a boy
that the boy had seen Catherine at 16th Street and Broad at approximately 12:15 p.m., just three blocks from her home.
Then it seems Catherine... just vanished, never to be seen again.
The search for Catherine was massive and nation-wide. Thousands of dollars were offered in reward money and the case
caught the attention of the nation. Dr. Winters traveled the country for the rest of his life looking for his daughter. A movie
was made about the disappearance and shown in theaters in several states in hopes of raising awareness and clues.

THE THEORIES:

CATHERINE WAS ABDUCTED BY GYPSIES:  This one never panned out although it was investigated rigorously. A gypsy
caravan had passed through New Castle and Hagerstown that day. Some claimed there were 4 wagons and some claim
there was a 5th and that the 5th headed south and east at Hagerstown leaving the group. One man who claimed he saw
the 5th wagon stated that he heard a girl screaming from it. The area in which the 5th wagon was said to have been
headed was completely washed out by the great flood of 1913. Asa (William) Winters pursued the gypsy theory for years
with no evidence found.

-THE STEP MOTHER AND BOARDER DID IT:  This one seems to have been the most popular theory later on as it was
stated that Byrd Winters was not fond of her step-daughter and also that Byrd may have been having an affair with a man
who was a boarder at the Winters home at the time of the disappearance, William Cooper, then aged 28,  a one-armed
telegraph operator for the Big Four Railroad and that Catherine had found out about the affair and therefore was a threat.
At one point  in May of 1914, Asa, Byrd and William Cooper were charged with the murder of Catherine but the charges
were dropped. Cooper remained living with the Winters family until about April of 1914 when he said Byrd threw him out for
"getting Doc drunk".
- THE WHISTLER FAMILY TOOK CATHERINE:  In order to receive the inheritance of her late mother's estate which was
said to be between $4,000-5000 (Other reports say as much as $8,000).  This theory also never panned out as the
Whistler family was living many miles away in Wisconsin and no evidence was ever found proving they were in the area at
the time. Etta's mother Eliza (Catherine's maternal grandmother)  was said to be in frail condition at this time and not well
enough to travel. A signature in a local hotel guest-book around the time of the disappearance that was stated to have
possibly been that of one of the Whistler family men was not the man in question as it was proven he was in attendance at
all his classes in a Wisconsin college at the time.
- CATHERINE'S BODY PUT IN A BOX ON A TRAIN AND SENT AWAY:  A 1953 article in the local newspaper called this
theory 'flawed' and stated that "every nook and cranny" had been explored for the missing child and also no evidence had
ever been found to substantiate  it.
- ABDUCTED BY STRANGER:  Just a week before Catherine disappeared a young girl in New Castle and who lived nearby
the Winters family was abducted by a stranger who allegedly took her out of town, assaulted her,  then returned her to
town, and let her go giving her a dime.  Shortly after Catherine disappeared there was said to have been a failed attempt
of an abduction of another young girl in the city.

THE EVIDENCE
As stated by Detective Abel: Memorial Day weekend, 1914, detectives unearthed a bloody T-shirt, the ripped sweater a
witness claimed Catherine wore on the day she disappeared, and lovely little dirt-covered matching red hair ribbons buried
in the Winters basement. "Byrd's  love letters were found in a bedroom, and they weren't written to Doc", Detective Robert
Abel claimed. A local chemist said the blood tested human and dated it at more than a year old. The evidence was
photographed and stashed away in an official's safe. Some said the safe was in Mayor James "Leb" Watkins' office; some
said it was in the courthouse. The evidence disappeared without a trace within the week, sinking Abel's case.

OTHER INFORMATION
The great flood of 1913 began on the night that Catherine went missing. The flood was of massive proportion and
hundreds were drowned in it's wake. All streams and rivers were swollen and bridges were washed away. A few days later a
local New Castle man named John Hagner drowned while securing a bridge for the railroad. It was first reported to have
likely been a suicide.  Apparently he went into the water not once but twice and after the first incident he gave some of his
pocket belongings ( a knife and $3.00) to a fellow co-worker (foreman Charles Lowery) instructing him to make sure his
wife received the items.  His body was not found until nearly a month later. An interesting side note is that the Prosecutor at
the time thought the suicide theory may have been a cover-up for a larger crime. No mention was made of what that crime
may have been.

The now 102 year old mystery of the disappearance of Catherine Winters remains unsolved and is still a popular topic of
discussion in New Castle and throughout the county and beyond.

William Asa Winters died in 1940, his last words having been "Now I will find out what happened to Catherine". Before his
death, Dr. Winters reckoned that $50,000 had been spent on the search for his daughter. That included about $2,200 of
his own money. Winters, his wife and at least a dozen private detectives traveled nearly 22,000 miles pursuing at least
2,000 false leads.

Byrd Winters died in 1953. A few weeks before her death Byrd suggested the possibility that Catherine had been
kidnapped and drowned in the great flood of 1913.

Frankie Winters died in Compton, CA, in 1955 at the age of 49 of cirrhosis of the liver. There were no confirmed reports of
whether he ever told anyone what he thought happened to his sister, although there is a story that has been told that
Frankie witnessed Catherine being hit by the step-mother and he was taken away from the room and never saw Catherine
again.

Lydia Ritter, mother of Byrd Winters, lived with the Winters presumably until her death. In the 1930 Federal Census Lydia
was age 79 and still living with the Winters. Frankie was gone having left town after high school and the Winters had
another boarder living with them. A man named George Thompson age 62. In the census Asa (William) was age 54 and
Byrd age 50.

Two songs - "Where Did Catherine Winters Go" and "Telephone To Heaven" - were written by the Gorbett Brothers of New
Castle, Indiana about the case.

THE PSYCHIC READING - PRESENT DAY 2015
Patti Negri with Mark Sean Orr and Eldon Pitts
At the urging of New Castle resident John Hitchcock,  I contacted Los Angeles based psychic Patti Negri to see if she would
do a reading about Catherine Winters. Negri agreed and a reading was conducted on Friday, October 23, 2015  via a
conference call between Negri, myself and journalist Eldon Pitts.
Negri was voted the number one psychic and medium in the world for 2014-2015. She has appeared in many TV and film
productions, most recently an episode of the popular 'Ghost Adventures' in which she contacted the ghost of Charlie
Chaplin in the historic and haunted Hollywood American Legion Post 43.

PSYCHIC PATTI NEGRI
"The second I started doing this I got sick, I just feel so nauseous and that's unusual. I'm an empath and I feel things a lot
but not to this extent, I'm freezing cold. I'm in beautiful, warm sunny California and I am freezing cold. I work with spirits. I
work with elements. I work with some tools and dowsing things. I've actually called in, have invited in, everything from the
spirit of Catherine... to her mother, father and step-mother. Some are coming in. Catherine actually is."

Patti:  There's some darkness that is not showing itself that is making this very hard. It's really interesting because I just
didn't think there would be this much oomph to it. But maybe because of the energy of the people keeping it alive for 100
years, that it really is.

Mark: Yes, it's still really popular. Are you drawn to any one theory?

Patti: Yes. I'm getting it was definitely not gypsies. I'm getting it was definitely not the step-mother, although she has a lot of
guilt attached to it somehow. That she didn't like the child or that she was secretly glad the child was gone. She did have
things to hide but it really... I'm not getting any....I keep going back and asking again but it looked like she was guilty maybe
because of the things she did but I get that she was not directly in the murder and kidnapping. I'm getting  that is was
definitely male, and not any of the people that were attached to it (the suspects) but I am getting that the boarder, the one
armed guy...

Mark: Yes...Mr. Cooper?

Patti: He knew who did it. He,  it was somebody that ...(sounding shaken)
I have to walk, sorry...it was one of his friends or
work associates or hooligans...that's not my word....someone he knew somehow and maybe he saw Catherine through that
or was at the house at one time or walking by that but he (Cooper)is not directly... but connected to the person who took
her.  And I do believe there was some friendship like  this guy (boarder) had some kind of inkling of that, complete
knowledge or suspect of that.  And  I would say that there's probably truth to the  fact that the mother and him maybe had
an affair or had something going to add to the guilt of everything, it really wasn't directly the murder of Catherine but that
something was not kosher. I'm getting a very sweet little girl and she still represents herself as a little girl. When I talk to
spirits sometimes they change age...children grow up, some who die old take themselves back to a younger age maybe
that they liked. She represents herself as all she knows...as a little girl. I'm getting that she feels some guilt in all of this, like
she thinks she did something wrong. The story I'm kind of getting from her is .....
"Oh my God I'm so cold" ...is that maybe
she went with somebody, like ..come with me little girl and maybe I'll buy your needles or whatever she was doing, whatever
those kind of predators do and she sort of knew better but she did it anyway.  So that's why there's a little bit of unrest
within her, because as so often happens  with the victim they take on a responsibility.

Mark: Do you think she was murdered immediately or lived for awhile?

Patti: (Talking with Catherine.....) I don't think she lived very long. It may have been days or something but I'm getting,  
okay I'm seeing it almost looks like a shack,  rural, very rural...maybe almost an abandoned shack that somebody was
holding up there or living there, or housing this person who took her. I believe that they took her there, but again it wasn't
very long that she was there, they weren't about keeping her or anything like that.  

Eldon: She's somewhere locally?

Patti: Pattie: Yes. What is east of where they were?

Eldon: East, nothing I can think of significant.

Patti:  Is there some kind of rural area off the beaten path?

Eldon: It would have been rural then probably. The town limits didn't go very far back then probably. They were probably
almost at the edge  of the east limits of the town at that time.

Patti: That's what I got, moving towards the east side that they would go further out. It's not like somebody took her all the
way through town.

Eldon: Do you have a feeling,  a sense that she ended up being in the local area somewhere and not anywhere else
farther away?

Patti: She's, they took her far enough to be really, really scared like she didn't  have a voice like no one can hear her or no
one could... there was clearly some terror there. (Asks spirits again).
No,  she was never taken very far away. I really feel very certain about that. I mean she was obviously not found
but I'm just getting off the beaten path. Almost like a little abandon shack or a hunting shack or something like that.  I don't
know why they wouldn't have found her. Didn't they do the kind of hunts or didn't they take ...in that little movie I saw they...

Mark: There was a major search party.

Eldon: It went on for ....

Patti: A long time....that's what I'm getting very clear. Alright...(talking to Catherine).  No I think they just...I don't think it's far.
It really is a shack, not much of anything but very off the beaten path. That's all I keep hearing. And they just, for whatever
reason did not get there.  She (Catherine) loses her focus. (Asks Catherine...
"were you buried there..are you in
water"?  Water...is there a body of water somewhere?  That's where she is.

Eldon: Yeah...Idlewild. I think it was there.

Patti: That's what I'm sensing,  some form of water. Somebody didn't dig a hole and put her in a hole, she was put into
water. Which is why she wasn't found. I don't know if they looked in the water areas. You would think they would have
though.

Eldon: I'm not sure what they did with that pond or that  lake there.

Mark: Idlewild was right near Catherine's home.  That's in the center of everything.

Patti: Of where she went missing?

Mark: Yeah, it was on 16th Street and that's where they lived.

Patti: Yeah it's pretty clear that she (died ?) it was not real far. She never got real far. Would there have been something
rural about the shack somebody couldn't have found near water that close? That's a tough one. Unless she wasn't there
very long and they got rid of her.

Mark: There was a park there for a long time.

Patti: Was there water in the park?

Eldon: The park...yeah

Mark:  Yeah ..they had boating and swimming...

Patti: Did they ever talk about that ...did they do that back then, you know dragging the lake/pond?

Eldon: I don't remember. I'd have to go back and look again.

Patti: Okay. That's what I am getting and the little house was not more than a shed, it wasn't like a house by any means. I
don't think there was amenities. There wasn't. More like a storage thing or a hunting shack is what I'm hearing now.

Eldon: I don't remember anything like that. There could have been. I've researched it for a long time and I've forgotten a lot
of the stuff it's been so long. I've forgotten a lot of the details.

Patti: I believe the father was completely innocent. I think step-mother absolutely did not do it, again, but she wasn't a great
woman and she did have secrets and she probably didn't like Catherine and wasn't the nicest to Catherine. I do not believe
that she is the one who killed her.

Eldon: Did you feel about her being physically abused (by the stepmother)?

Patti: Yes..I do believe that Catherine was physically abused by the step mother. I think that because there are  a lot of
things that add to guilt of the step-mother but she did not kill her.  It's what I'm getting clearly even from Catherine. That
she wasn't a good woman, she wasn't a good woman and again there probably was some truth ...how everything links
together and feels like guilt or there's an attachment of some sort is she probably did have something going whether
physical or what with this boarder person and this boarder person is attached somehow distantly to the person who took
her. An acquaintance, a drinking buddy, I'm getting more drinking buddy type thing. A real rough and tumble kind of guy,
saw this pretty little girl, and I'm getting that there was a little bit of following involved. To get together at the right time.

Mark: Anything about Catherine's brother Frank? He stayed here (New Castle) until he finished school and then he moved
to Compton, California.

Patti: So he's right here by me.

Mark: Yes

Patti: (Asking spirit.....
"so does Frankie know what happened to Catherine?")  I read the stuff you sent and that he saw
things. He might have thought the step mother did it and I think he really did believe that but again I don't honestly believe
that she did. So I think that he doesn't have any or didn't have any real knowledge except for that he probably saw
mistreating. Treatment of Catherine and then he was mistreated too.  I think it was what we would say in modern times,  is
that it was a very dysfunctional family.  You know I ......all of them I think even the father who came across as whatever he
did,  I think that this turned into a whole weird thing for him. I think the step mother just was a very dark woman and who
was really glad but again still had enough attachment that that's why the guilt stuff came in. I tried to talk to spirit about the
stuff that they had found with the one article called the smoking gun like the red sweater, was the red sweater Catherine's
red sweater that was found. I don't believe it was.

Eldon: You don't believe it was?

Patti: No. I honestly don't think that those supposedly  smoking gun things were attached to the murder or kidnapping.
Again not that there was innocence involved on any of them, I don't get that they were attached to that. And I get that
Frankie was ...I don't know, I didn't read anything about him but maybe one sentence, that he was a little messed up in life
too. Either by all this or what happened with this. He had his own set of demons is what I keep hearing. Not demons like
he's got demons attached but his own set of....there was like a dark big cloud put over all of this and as much as we all
hate big dark clouds somehow it served the family, if that makes sense. It gave the father a purpose. He truly did want to
find his daughter he truly did whatever he did but to an unhealthy extent it gave him a purpose that actually served him
well. Does that make sense?Again, step mother same....had she not been probably abusing the child had she not been
maybe messing around with this guy she would not have that guilt by association.
Wow....somebody...who is this that is just making me so nauseous and again...feel like I don't have a voice.
Somebody wants it stopped ...somebody or some thing or energy....see I've been doing this since I was a little baby and for
some cases that have taken on so much interest over a hundred years that when they haven't been found there's been a
very strong energy or whatever you want to call it, a spirit or just a presence  that really doesn't want the truth known about
this for some reason.
Because it is so unsettled and there is all this energy there it's like round and round and spinning... almost, some people...
I would get that, because again if it is falsely being held onto, if somebody is falsely creating we don't want it solved and
that's even  coming from almost all ends.   Like if the spirit or energy who wants this to continue on, 'no looking for
Catherine', you might be more comfortable in it not being solved and living on in infamy. The step mother again since there
was some guilt involved by association,the energy of her....she probably doesn't want it solved. In a weird sense I think the
only one who would like it solved is Catherine, but I think she has kind of a "head in the sand' thing ...
I don't want to look
at that.
I really try to catch her attention and it's like "oh squirrel", she goes away. Where I can usually hold into an energy
or spirit she kind of flitters away like
"I don't want to look at that" like sticks her fingers in her ears going ....Na Na Na Na
Na Na Na Na , I guess because there's a little bit of guilt attached to herself....wrongly,horribly wrongly. She of course did
not do anything wrong.
My wish for her with me talking to her right now is 'Catherine, you didn't do anything wrong. You were just this beautiful little
girl being a little girl. Even if you went with somebody you weren't supposed to go with...you were the victim here.

Eldon: You don't get any sense of who that person was?

Patti: Definitely male, larger frame, nondescript in most ways. Caucasian man, brown hair, probably in their 40's, first half of
forties. Not a real stable, not a person who had a wife and family and all , kind of a wanderer of sorts, did different jobs. ).
Again...attachment maybe yeah...at one point had something to do with the railroad which I think the guy with the one arm
had something to do with the railroad. Whether he traveled the railroad, or worked like freelance or temporary on the
railroad and again they were some type of drinking buddies or something like that which is how the whole kind of circle
came around. And then this guy just disappeared. A vagrant type.
And I do get that this guy really did have an issue, have a problem and he probably did this to other children whether
anyone had known about it or not. And I get that the person who did it did not live a very long life. He probably got into a
tussle or a fight or something like that and died within 10 years of taking Catherine...or less which was good because he
wasn't a good person.

Mark: And you think the father had no idea?

Pattie: (Asking spirit....
."did the father have any idea?"). No.  I really don't think he ever knew. Again I think there was a
lot of unhealthy energies attached with the wife with the, he you know there's probably accusations and suspicions and
things because of things he probably knew. Again I think the father and the daughter both had a "I don't want to look at
that I want to create my own reality of sorts."  So probably knowing who his wife was he might have got a little mixed in, but
it was so much easier to go to gypsies, so much easier to come up with that and so much easier to give him purpose. I
don't think his wife was really happy not counting the Catherine stuff.  I think that there was a lack of satisfaction in just his
wife in general and this gave him purpose as morbid as it is which is why he went so  all out to do it. It became a thing in
itself beyond just figuring out who did it. It became it's own life.

Mark: Yes...until he died.

Patti: It gave him purpose and made him not have to look at other things that he didn't want to look at whatever that was.
I'm getting that Catherine is okay. She's not like a lost soul or lost spirit or anything. She's crossed over because enough
love from people in the area, the city, and the state and the country sent so much good energy her way ... she's fine.
Whatever you believe happens next, Heaven or going on to the great consciousness.  She is fine so I would bet that
probably very few sightings of the ghost of Catherine have ever been seen. I'm not saying that spirits who have crossed
over don't come back because I have a ghost who comes and hangs out at my house. She used to own this house. She
died in 1998. But the one's that are lost and are unresolved one's are the one's you see over and over again. So that's
good that there hasn't been that kind of "lost in the woods Catherine" , 'the bride killed on her wedding night' , you know
that kind of unsettled stuff.

Eldon: A friend of mine who has researched this for some time wanted me to find out if you get a sense that there are any
records that she has overlooked in research, records that haven't been found?

Patti: I don't think so. I don't think that the guy who took her kept a diary or anything like that. I don't think it was real
planned out...I think there was some following that "Oh look at that cute little girl" whatever some perverted mind
thinks...you know or this guy said I live with this family, this....you know....um...but if there is anything, I'm not seeing.  I see
clear, clear clear this little shed thing, whether it is behind the house or somebody else's house but there may not have
even been any evidence within that.  She's pretty clear she went into water. I think that is why they didn't find the body.  
And I think this was such an evil ...not good guy, that took her, the whirlwind it created, it created it's whole world. That's
why the father got obsessed. That's why 100 years later people are still talking about it because this has become an entity
of it's own of sorts...this unsolved thing, it's really interesting  and again the whole collective in a sense wants it to keep
going.
It's interesting because people are going wow, I see the spin, like a plate spinning on a thing. This needs to stop..this
needs to stop, it's going round and round but other people who get caught up in it ...energetically it lives on in this way.  
She lives on this way.

Mark: I believe if it had been solved we wouldn't be talking about it today.

Patti: Right, right we wouldn't and the father wants it talked about if that makes sense. He actually, I think he was always
trying to find outside (answers) because the inside he really had the tiniest suspicion that it could have been his wife and
that's the reason which for some people made it look like he was guilty with the 'look over here, look over  there', that  
redirection thing......... Not that he was trying to cover up for her but because he thought that couldn't happen to me. I
would not marry someone who could do that.

Eldon: There is a sense that whatever happened to her was a homicide? It was intentional not accidental? Or that it could
have been accidental?

Patti: No. No, it could have been accidental in the moment but it was a definite abduction, probably sexual and mean. This
was somebody who was mean.  I don't believe she was stabbed or anything. It would have been a hit to the left side of the
head. Whether he was trying to kill her in the moment or just trying to subdue her, but it was not an accident like she got
lost in the woods or anything like that. Because
she had a realization moment and that's what I keep seeing....that
"Oh no"...."Oh no....."Oh no".....I was right, I shouldn't have done this.
 She didn't know what to do. I get this little
terror moment which is again where she wants to go in space.

Mark: So no body will ever be found?

Patti: (
asks spirit..."will there ever be a body found...if they dredge the lake will they find remains or bones?) I don't
think so. I don't think a body will be found. I don't think there's any secret notes or hidden notes. I think people really did
look really hard to find things.  Again and there is just guilt by association attached to people but not the real guilt of what it
is, and I do believe that guy probably died in a brawl or something and it went to the grave with him.
(Asks spirit....did the boarder have any knowledge that the guy he knew did it?).  He might have been suspicious over that
I'm not getting a name , like Henry ..a real average name. It was a real nondescript guy except kind of strong, like maybe
from manual labor or work. This guy is not somebody you would want to tangle with. And I think the boarder might have had
a  little bit of inkling that it could have been him.  Okay I read one thing.  Again, I just read everything in the last half hour,
there was something about the grandparents or people in the town...I don't think it was any of them. Somebody said that
somebody had signed in somebody (hotel) to make them look guilty. Do you remember that.

Mark: Yes, the Wisconsin (newspaper) article.

Patti: The Wisconsin people that some people had tried to put guilt on them that somebody signed into a hotel but he
proved that he was elsewhere.

Mark: Right

Patti: No...I don't get that there's any guilt. I don't even get how really somebody said that they signed in. I think somebody
almost made that up. Like..."oh look at that signature, it looks like that person. I think they were here". I don't think it was a
big undercover that somebody's trying to set somebody up....I guess that was just one of those weird coincidences like "oh
this looks like Fred Smith" or whatever his name was, maybe he was here. No he wasn't...they proved he was wherever he
was.

Mark: Right, that's the guy who was in college (in Wisconsin). And they proved he was at all his classes at the time.
Patti: Yes...he was at all of his classes. But somebody had said "Oh he had signed into a hotel (in New Castle) or
something like that....I don't believe that was true. I believe somebody signed into(.....) and they tried to turn it into "Let's
pull some attention here"....how humans tend to do. I think it's too bad she didn't get to go with those Wisconsin people
actually. Might have been a whole different life for that little girl.

Eldon: Yeah, she might have been returned eventually.

Patti: Probably would have been a whole different thing. Again...what is fate, what is free will, how to create, what's in the
cards. I believe that's a while different conversation. Because of the attention people have put and because of the caring
people put, whatever your belief system it helped her cross over and be okay. Her soul, her spirit is okay. I'm sure a lot of
people went to church and lit candles for her, I'm sure a lot of people put out prayers for her. That really made a big
difference in this tortured little  girls spirit. That should give people some solace. I think that's pretty cool. I don't see that
that often in this kind of thing. And ....see if I can get her father......No....because I think the father too....is still un-rested
and wants it to keep going on. It's really interesting. They say it's like a tapestry or patchwork or weaving together of so
much energy that it took me over. Very unusual ...again there's just so much energy and everything is energy. Nothing is
solid and this just created a whole entity or spirit of its own around this Catherine Winters case.

Eldon: Do you feel like the father still would like to have it resolved?

Patti: I think the father ...No...not that he doesn't want it resolved but he doesn't want the spin to end. I honestly don't think
he wants the spin to end. Until his dying day he didn't.  And now he would be like, if all of a sudden they, next week you
sent them out to the east, they found a little shack that they didn't pay attention to before , they dredged the river , they
found the bones....his energy, his spirit would go
"It's done now...it's done now". And it would be taking away his
purpose even in death.  He didn't do it. I believe he loved his daughter but even above his love for her was this whole
ordeal gave him a purpose and reason so I don't know that he wants the search off. I would say not.
It's very, very, very odd. It became not about resolving it became about the act itself, not the resolution for him. Thus
became who he was and still probably doing it. But again she is kept alive by this energy. I definitely think she was hit in the
head. I bet you if they ever did dredge the river and found her skull, back left side of the head, that's the thing that did her
in. Not that there wasn't stuff leading up to it. Probably abuse and stuff like that.

Eldon: I can't think of anything else Mark.

Mark: Me either but this has been great! I can't thank you enough Patti.

Patti: Oh you are welcome! You now I would love it if they did decide to go dredge a river and find something out. That's
what's hard about these cases because it's all a matter of faith and looking and here's another option and see where to go.
I try to really step back and not put my thoughts or make up things into it because in my head I wanted to go with this or
this and no. That's just me being a storyteller. I really try to stay clear with that.

Eldon: It's been great and I really appreciate it very much.

Patti: Alright well I can't wait to see whatever you guys do....spell name right.

Mark: Definitely

Patti: What is the name of the city? I should look at a map....I get a strong hit of east and a strong hit of water.

Mark: New Castle

Patti: The spirits are all okay with this and more than anything...little Catherine is okay. And you know what....she keeps
showing me butterflies, butterflies which is kind of good, it's transformational. And again I just want to give her peace that
she is not responsible for anything....she was a victim so who knows if you're walking to work and all of a sudden you see a
bunch of strange butterflies ....it's Catherine. That's how it works.
Now I feel fine...the sickness is gone and so is the cold.

by Mark Sean Orr
Interview with Psychic Patti Negri with Eldon Pitts
Interview - Friday October 23, 2015
Transcribed - Thursday October 29, 2015 by Mark Sean Orr
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The Winters family. William Asa Winters second from left in back row with Byrd Ritter Winters to his left. Front
and center are Catherine and brother Frankie Winters. The others are unidentified.
1922 photography of the Shroyer Building in downtown New Castle, Indiana. On the upper second story floor
is where Dr. William Asa Winters' Dentist office was located.
Doc Winters in his office.
Memorial marker for Catherine Winters in South Mound Cemetery, New Castle, Indiana.
photo by Mark Sean Orr
Patti Negri is an actor, producer, psychic-medium and "good"
witch. She was voted number one psychic, medium, tarot
reader and witch / magical practitioner in the world for 2014 -
2015.

She has recently graced 6 magazine covers including
American Psychic & Medium, Art, UFO and Supernatural,
Parapsychology and Mind Power, 4th Dimension,
Extraterrestrials Magazine and Stars Illustrated and has
contributed or been a part of over 20 books, several of which
are Amazon Bestsellers.

A big believer in thinking globally and acting locally, Patti is
committed to helping her planet from the ground up. She is a
community activist, serves on the board of 4 nonprofit
organizations and is president of her local neighborhood
association. She has also been a spokesperson for the CDC
(Center for Disease Control) on a national consumer health
information campaign for DES exposure and is president of
the board of directors of DES Action.
Celebrity Psychic & Reality Star Patti Negri
Patti Negri on IMDb
Patti Negri on Facebook
Psychic Patti Negri
Dr. William Asa and Byrd WInters
Catherine Winters